The Heads Up Blind Debate!

[The Showgirl]

OK - undoubtedly cock ups have been made - and this thread I aim for us to come to an agreement or find the actual correct blind pattern following the exit of a 3RD place finisher.

[The Showgirl]

Blind Article from http://www.learn-texas-holdem.com/:

Question: in a tournament, when down to 2 players, who gets dealt to first? the button? and why?
When a tournament gets down to the final 2 players, who is in the big blind, the dealer or the non-dealer? What is the order of play pre-flop and post-flop?

Answer: I get this question a lot so I'll answer it again here.
In heads up holdem, the dealer button has the small blind and the other player has the big blind. The dealer button gets dealt the first card (because he is the small blind), then the big blind gets his/her first card. Then after the players get their cards, the preflop betting starts with the small blind -- the dealer button. After the flop is shown, now the player on the dealer button is last to act (like normal). So preflop the dealer has to act first and gets the small blind, after the flop -- flop, turn and river betting -- the dealer is second to act.

The reason this is like this is because if the dealer button had the big blind, it would be too much power -- the dealer would have the big blind (already a lot of money in) plus position for every betting round. This would make heads up play really tight with the small blind only playing with premium hands (in which case the dealer would most likely fold). So by giving the small blind to the dealer button, it is more balanced and a better game.


This makes sense to me - although I'm pretty sure I've heard an alternative for who gets dealt to first! But we deal to the small blind first throughout the game so I can see a logic there.

[The Showgirl]

I've been watching closely when head up on Full Tilt since yet again nobody had a real clue about what we should be doing heads up on Saturday.

The first two times the 3rd place player went out when I was small blind, I belive the Big Blind went out on both occasions - I was then small blind AGAIN next hand and the button moved as normal to me. I didn't get video of this but will do so when the situation occurs again.

[The Showgirl]

Third time heads up I did get the footage:



As you can see this time the small blind went out resulting in the button moving two places.

[The Showgirl]

We only have evidence of the small blind going out - I'd ask you all to try and capture the Big Blind and the button going out so we can solve this enigma once and for all!

[The Showgirl]

For those of you who missed it - here is The Turn's post on some very easy to use screen capture software that I used to capture the hand replayer and post on here:

"There's a nice bit of free software here. Just download the exe file about half way down the page and install.

Open the software, select the region menu, make sure region is ticked, click record, drag the cursor to define your recording area and you're good to go.

Not really tried it so not sure about file sizes etc, it saves the video as .avi by default so you can always edit and then upload to youtube."

[The Showgirl]

Blind Article from http://www.learn-texas-holdem.com/:

Question: in a tournament, when down to 2 players, who gets dealt to first? the button? and why?
When a tournament gets down to the final 2 players, who is in the big blind, the dealer or the non-dealer? What is the order of play pre-flop and post-flop?

Answer: I get this question a lot so I'll answer it again here.
In heads up holdem, the dealer button has the small blind and the other player has the big blind. The dealer button gets dealt the first card (because he is the small blind), then the big blind gets his/her first card. Then after the players get their cards, the preflop betting starts with the small blind -- the dealer button. After the flop is shown, now the player on the dealer button is last to act (like normal). So preflop the dealer has to act first and gets the small blind, after the flop -- flop, turn and river betting -- the dealer is second to act.

The reason this is like this is because if the dealer button had the big blind, it would be too much power -- the dealer would have the big blind (already a lot of money in) plus position for every betting round. This would make heads up play really tight with the small blind only playing with premium hands (in which case the dealer would most likely fold). So by giving the small blind to the dealer button, it is more balanced and a better game.


This makes sense to me - although I'm pretty sure I've heard an alternative for who gets dealt to first! But we deal to the small blind first throughout the game so I can see a logic there.

I don't take this as the be all and end all - if you find articles to the contrary get them on here!

[The Turn]

From the same site, article.

He covers all scenarios for the transition from three handed to two handed with the most pertinent quote coming from when the dealer busts out three handed, this can be especially confusing.

Ok, this one is tricky (the trickiest actually), so let me explain. It looks as though we broke our rules, but we didn't. Remember, we have to prioritize and satisfy the most important rules first. The most important thing is that in heads up play a player doesn't get stuck with the big blind twice in a row. Notice that in each hand, the big blind is moved. Secondly, we want to get back to having the dealer button on the small blind as quick as possible without breaking any more important rule. The best way to do this is to put the big blind on the dealer button for one hand, then it remains in that seat for the next hand.

From all the articles I read they seem to agree that no player should be the big blind twice in a row, the above scenario makes sense and seems the best option to me.

[The Showgirl]

I concur - just got heads up again - this time the button went out - so the button moves 2 places two prevent two big blinds in a row - phew we got it right the other night.

I still need video evidence but it seems you can be small blind twice in a row if the big blind goes out in 3rd place.

[The Turn]

Agree, think we've got this nailed at long last and have a reference if we're too drunk to think straight!

Big blind busts out in third

Here we both preserve the big blind moving one spot so no one misses it or gets it twice and then also the dealer button moves one seat. The only messy part is that the small blind gets put on the same player twice. But that is preferable to having the big blind on the dealer button.